Tuesday, November 16, 2010

Which two people in history had their own symbols?



65 comments:

CurtisP said...

Jesus has his own symbol, a cross I believe. Chanel, Donald Trump, Prince (or the-artist-formerly-known-as-prince,) Yves Saint Laurent and hundreds of others. Why lie?

CurtisP said...

Jesus has a cross, I believe.

lgstarr said...

Since Jesus DIED on the cross, he couldn't possibly have used the cross as his symbol.

Chanel, Donald Trump, Prince, and Yves Saint Laurent are not "historical" people, they are entrepeneurs who sell themselves, their products, and/or their services.

Anonymous said...

Igstarr, Jesus' symbol is the cross, and if not that, the Jesus fish.

lgstarr said...

Since Jesus DIED on the cross, he couldn't possibly have USED the cross as his symbol (other people did that AFTER he died.)

Hitler and Obama chose and used their respective symbols while they were alive.

Gypsy Jane said...

Obama's not historical yet. and he's certainly selling himself, his products and/or services - his agenda.

lgstarr said Chanel, Donald Trump, Prince, and Yves Saint Laurent are not "historical" people, they are entrepeneurs who sell themselves, their products, and/or their services.

lgstarr said...

Too late. Obama made history as the first black President. So he wins the melanin award.

Eryn said...

1.The swastika is the symbol of the Nazi Party, not only of Hitler himself. Besides which... "Hindenburg used a personal standard consisting of a black eagle on a square gold background edged by a border of black, white and red bands" If you care to do the research, so there goes your theory right there...in the wiki article on THIS VERY SUBJECT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_standard_of_Adolf_Hitler

2.Hundreds of people now and Thousands throughout history have created personal bindrunes - symbols constructed from characters of the Futhathark that have personal symbolic and spiritual meaning. Some instruction on bindrunes can be found here.
http://www.runemaker.com/wares/personals.shtml

3. This is the queen of England's Royal standard... http://factoidz.com/images/user/250px-Royal_Standard_of_the_United_Kingdom_svg.jpg

6. Here is a wiki of other royal standards...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Standard

Perhaps you should refrain from parading your ignorance....

lgstarr said...

Hitler created the Nazi Party, thus, his symbol appears in connection with them.

You are confusing "personal standard" with "symbol" ... Merriam-Webster does not even list them as synonyms for each other's definitions.

On Wikipedia's page for Hindenburg there is not one single symbol pictured anywhere for him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_von_Hindenburg

On Hitler's Wikipedia page his "symbol" (the swastika) appears in two places: once as a component of the standard and once in the picture to the right of the section called "Brüning administration":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolph_hitler

Elder Futhark (not "Futhathark") were a runic alphabet used by Germanic tribes. This has nothing to do with the subject of this post.

just me said...

The symbol of Jesus is not the cross nor the fish, you people should look them up huh?

just me said...

The cross and Fish are not symbols of Jesus they are Christian symbols, not just of Jesus.

lgstarr said...

"Just Me"--I did look them up and they are symbols used by the followers of Jesus:

http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/symbols.htm

It's impossible to separate the definition of Christianity from Jesus: he IS the definition of Christianity!

zd said...

The difference between Hitler and Obama is that Hitler's symbol actually stood for something at least somewhat concrete. meaning, the Nazi party as having tenets, written documents, etc. So the swastika represents the ideology.

With Obama, scary as it is, the vagueness is what is deadly. His symbol, like his words stand for such vague things, for example HOPE or CHANGE, that people feel a sense of identifying with it without actually thinking critically about what Obama has done.

PLEASE NOTE: Romney also has a symbol. NO BUENO!

t-homps said...

ok, NOT Jesus, but Prince, Martin Luther, Mitt Romney, to name a few

lgstarr said...

No symbol for "Romney" -- it was a campaign logo for "Romney/Ryan."

What symbol is Martin Luther's?

chrisL said...

Godwin's law!

lgstarr said...

Godwin's Law is not applicable here. The Hitler reference was the point of the original post, not an inappropriate and subsequent comment in a thread.

JosephK said...

Seriously people?
Seriously?

Igstarr : "No symbol for "Romney" -- it was a campaign logo for "Romney/Ryan.""
And of course it's not the case for Obama because it helps your statement?

1-Every politicians has his own symboles
2-Saying that someone who has a symbol is the same that someone who has an other symbol ISN'T a proof in any sort. It's more like an immature comparaison. Like "One day I saw someone with a hat and he was very mean. This guy is also wearing an hat : he must be mean too."
3-(And more important) My grand-dad died during the holocaust. He was put in a concentration camp. At this time, in Europe, everyone was killed, a lot of people were starving to death, it was legal to discriminate, to kill...even children!
How can you compare Adolf Hitler to someone just because you don't have the same politic opinion?
I think it's very immature and very offensive.

Erik Larsenik said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
lgstarr said...

I think it's immature and offensive that both "JosephK" and "Erik Larsenik" posted word-for-word identical comments here.

Like Hitler, Obama's use of his symbol is not limited to just a campaign logo. Here's an example:
http://tinyurl.com/ylgzn9t

Aton Forbes said...

So you're saying Obama is a historical figure, nice!

lgstarr said...

Uh...yes.

First black president.

So?

(For that matter, first gay, communist and Muslim president as well.)

Jeff Spears said...

If you want to get nit picky then History just means in the past. So Trump, Prince, Chanel, etc. are in that category. Historic on the other hand would be things like Obama being the first Black President, Hitler and his psychotic crap and other things like that.

lgstarr said...

If you want to get nit picky, this comment isn't about every single human being who lives or ever lived on the earth who markets (or marketed) a skill they have, a product they sell or themselves.

AfroSatanLovesWhiteJesus said...

I would like to point out the fact that "The artist formerly known as Prince" is the first person in known history to change his actual legal name to a symbol. Making him a historical figure and fact-fucking you're misinformed graphic. Not to mention that the swastika existed thousands of years before Hitler was born and was used in many different cultures and religions from Vikings to Hindu's and most the areas of the map in between the two (that's a lot of map. And I'm pretty sure Romney was using that "R" symbol before he announced his running mate. Nice try though but symbolism is, has been, and will be a part of the way that all parts of humanity, even individuals, defines itself for-muthafuckin-ever. Stop being a twit.

lgstarr said...

Nice try, but entertainers come and go and are a dime a dozen. Do you really expect to see "Prince" in some history book as a "historical figure?"

Hitler used a reversed swastika, number one. Number two, it wasn't used by a PERSON before.

The campaign logo was "RR" and used for Romney and Ryan.

Snoop Kimble said...

who ever posted this blog is really UN-educated, and probably is pretty much a total noob, I dont care for Obama, but to compare him to hitler and to say that there only 2 people to have a symbol is pretty stupid. must be a republican or a raciest and ofc Since you approve the post I am sure it will not get posted.

lgstarr said...

On the contrary, I am well-educated.

This post didn't make a comparison between Hitler and Obama other than their use of symbols which neither you (or anyone else) has managed to refute.

Kergillian said...

Don't worry, this may not be true, but it rings of truthiness. A good Conservative never lets facts cloud their judgement.

lgstarr said...

So far, it has held up.

Dante54 said...

if you bothered to look up the definition of the word "symbol" you would know that it is defined as;
1.
something used for or regarded as representing something else; a material object representing something, often something immaterial; emblem, token, or sign.
2.
a letter, figure, or other character or mark or a combination of letters or the like used to designate something: the algebraic symbol x; the chemical symbol Au.
3.
(especially in semiotics) a word, phrase, image, or the like having a complex of associated meanings and perceived as having inherent value separable from that which is symbolized, as being part of that which is symbolized, and as performing its normal function of standing for or representing that which is symbolized: usually conceived as deriving its meaning chiefly from the structure in which it appears, and generally distinguished from a sign. Basing a thought process on these definition, almost every example given in previous comments proves that you are an uneducated prick with a stick up his ass about Romney losing. And if you honestly believe this doesn't imply a similarity between Obama and Hitler your even more retarded than you already seem. I'm no fan of Obama, but that doesn't mean you need to post ignorant shit about things you have no education on.

lgstarr said...

Aside from the fact that your comment is unintelligible, nothing could prove that I'm an "uneducated prick with a stick up his ass about Romney losing" since I am educated, don't have a prick (and am not planning on having a sex-change operation anytime soon) and Romney was my LAST choice in the primary.

Defiler said...

Everybody seems to forget the millions of nobles who all had, besides the family weapon, a personal weapons which consited of different symbols.
Ditto for the royals who upon being crowned even get their personal flag.
Ditto for the millions of 16th - 19th century traders who developped a personal symbol to differentiate their product from others.
Ditto for masters in midieval guilds who had their master's mark added on their products.
Ditto for the millions of existing "ex libris" to mark ones personal library.
Ditto for the hundreds of thousands individuals who started with spreading their personal ideas about any kind of subject and succesfully created a movement which carries its originators symbol.
Ditto for the symbols the so called free professions use to differentiate one from another (lawyers, notaries, doctors)
Ditto for umpteen guru's who make a whole universe out of their personal symbol to trap their followers
Ditto for every human being who has a signature with which he or she underwrites legal documents.
Ditto for dozens of groups not mentioned yet

But I guess all of them don't count in your view of the universe, you just need a way to compare nazism with Obama after all. All the rest can be safely discarded.

Perhaps a beginner's course in symbology would help, but I gather you would consider it fake and fraudulent.

Poor ignorant bigot. I really feel sorry for you for having such a limited perspective on the whole universe. Life really must be an unending hell for you.

lgstarr said...

This post is about historical figures (not everyone who ever lived) and refers to their use of a symbol (not standards or logos).

Erin Eldridge said...

As a president of the United States, he is. All presidents are. Not to mention he's the first black president we've had, so how could you NOT think he's a historical figure?

lgstarr said...

Yes, Obama is a historical figure. That's the whole point of this post.

Xylem said...

The logo looks more like an artists interpretation of the american flag....the bottom having the traditional wave effect representing the wave of change our society is experiencing, the arch (or blue rainbow) connects the beginning and end of the wave, symbolizing the hope that change will continue full circle. Now we've seen during election time that candidates will use artist interpretations of a flag to make them stand out from their opponents. I think the only reason that this "symbol" has stuck with president o bamais because it was one of thosebold moves does campaign that resulted in his opponent getting crushed in the election. the Obama campaign use a lot of progressive thinking strategies that resulted in his victories if it would make it would not make sense for him to not carry them into his term. I guarantee you the next presidents will use some of the same strategies and they will have their own symbols as well because it is effective.

Michael adcox said...

This should probably be worded as "throughout history, only to leaders had their own symbols. Hitler and obama"

Michael adcox said...

This should be worded, "only two leaders in history have had their own symbols. Hitler and Obama"

Michael adcox said...

These guys are all retarded. Pay no attention. You are correct. Makes people feel good when they think they can prove someone wrong. Idiots

Anonymous said...

Sorry guys. Lincoln had the Stove pipe hat. Churchill his cigar. Steve Jobs had two: black turtle neck and Apple symbol (tell me he was not a leader in his area of expertise). Ralph Lauren with Polo. Link below is to a whole article on leaders with symbols.

http://www.benarment.com/history_in_the_making/2008/08/leaders-need-an-iconic-symbol.html

Anonymous said...

Abe Lincoln with Stove pipe hat. Churchill with cigar. Ralph Lauren with Polo. Steve Jobs with Apple or black turtle neck. Link to article about a book with leaders with symbols.

http://www.benarment.com/history_in_the_making/2008/08/leaders-need-an-iconic-symbol.html

sara pryce said...

So it's s poorly-worded graphic that the poster can construe to mean whatever she wants but nobody else can do the same. Well played.

lgstarr said...

Ben Arment refers to these items as "props" (cigar, hat, etc.) and they are not exclusive (i.e. Groucho Marx was famous for using his cigar as a prop; Ted Lewis and Fred Astaire used top hats in their acts). No one else uses Obama's logo and never will--same with Hitler. BTW, the book Arment refers to is about history's greatest SPEAKERS (not leaders).

Brandy W said...

So, what you're saying is that the graphic should read,

"Only two historically significant people in history, not including famous people, religious figures, kings, queens, pharaohs, organizations, or anyone else whose use of a symbol might reveal the ignorance and stupidity that my use of this graphic may suggest, had another well known symbol modified to be adopted as their own."

Oh yes, I see your point now...
You are a political zealot! Good for you! Thanks for sharing.

~~Robert said...


My reaction is that several people have mischaracterized the post. But, the most fervent criticism contains personal attacks.

The post does not refer to trade symbols, or particular affectations attributed to historical figures. The symbols referred to heads of government creating personal badges of personal authority, implying powers beyond those legitimately bestowed. In other words, using them as symbols of cults of personality, reflecting a narcissistic personality, obsessed with power, to the detriment of its people.

Anyone who dose not see this parallel may be blinded by ideology, for the evidence accumulates daily. But, the personal attacks are reflective of a reflexive response, that precludes real critical thinking, and effective refutation.

~~Robert

Alf Covey said...

It's a logo, you pathetic idiots. It's not a symbol, it's a frigging logo! I can't believe you people are smart enough to breathe.

lgstarr said...

Symbol or logo--it doesn't change the outcome.

b2s said...

This is the most ignorant thing ever. Every organization/political party has its symbol. Every political campaign has a brand - a logo, colors, even fonts. Remember Romney's big stylized R some moron got tattooed on the side of his face? Hate if you must, but don't make things up to hate on. If the guy doesn't have anything genuine you can hate him for, you're just a racist and you ought to own that and be proud of it.

lgstarr said...

What is Hillary's symbol? Bill's?? George H.W. Bush's??? Gerald Ford???? John F. Kennedy??????

john plunkett said...

i like what robert said ... however what makes this meme a fallacy is that Obama has not done what Hitler did ... not even close ... he has not violated our civil rights, he has not acted beyond the means of his own authority, and in fact, has prevented the GOP from completely SCREWING this nation all to hell and back ... so if anything, he HAS embodied those "intangibles" such as hope and change ... good job Obama!

lgstarr said...

President Barack Obama's Complete List of Historic Firsts [Updated]:
http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2011/06/president-barack-obamas-complete-list.html

noobhackx said...

That is the most incorrect, misunderstood and complete bullshit post I have ever seen on the internet, Whether or not you like the man it is irrelevant, this is just completely and utterly incorrect

Firstly, the Swastika was a party symbol, not Hitler's personal symbol, regardless of who was leading the Nazi party the Swastika would have flown as their flag. Also judging that Anton Drexler, not Hitler, started the Nazi Party...if you want to make a personal symbol argument then its Drexler's not Hitler.

Second off, Obama's symbol is not his own, per say, it belongs to the people who backed him, worked on his campaign and got him into the White House, so even that falls onto his face as its a campaign symbol not a personal symbol or even a party symbol like the Swastika, it is simply a logo for the entirety of the Obama administration which doesn't even represent the Democratic party in its entirety. The logo was designed by Chicago-based Sender LLC (a brand development and design company) on assignment from Chicago-based mo/de (a motion design studio), so its actually not Obama's at all per say, it was just used to aid his campaign by people who supported him. He may have embraced it, but still...it does not make it his.

Finally...soooo many people had their own seals, Richard the Lionhearted has 3 lions on a banner, the Japanese Emperor has his own seal, the Chinese imperial family had their own seal, Jesus's symbol is the cross, Each Egyptian Pharaoh has his own version of the Ankh, the Zodiac killer used the cross of the zodiac on his mask, the Star of David used by the Jews is used as it was the symbol of King David, Vlad the Impailer had 2 dragons and a sword, The Ihwamun is the Seal of the Korean Imperial family, the Rothschild family uses a two headed eagle, Andrew Jackson used a donkey, the King of Minos used a bull, and St. Peter is symbolized by the upside down cross...as representative of the way he was crucified.

That's a few....I could go on for weeks on other examples off the top of my head alone

Again, Whether or not you like the man it is irrelevant, this is just completely and utterly incorrect

lgstarr said...

You need to read the previous comments.

For example, Jesus never used the cross as a symbol and Peter never used an upside down cross as his symbol.

Pepper Ann said...

lgstarr It's useless to try and get it across to people on this post. First of all they repeat things that previous comments already addressed because they're too lazy to read. I totally get what you and ~~Robert have said.

Jayshaun Pearce said...

R u silly or jus dwn rite misinformed?!! He became a "Historical Figure" da moment he won da Presidential Elections of da Nation tht is considered da "Leader of the Free World" & 1 of da "Biggest Global Superpowers" all while being a "Black Man"...& now 7 yrs later is mark n history is more etched & cemented than whn he 1st arrived, so PLEASEEE! explain 2 me again y He's Not HISTORICAL? (well according 2 u, tht is) smh&lol

lgstarr said...

I said he was a historical figure. What R U smokin'?

Crystal said...

Wow!it has to make you feel like such a chump to put someone down while you spell the way you do. As the CURRENT president he is not yet a historical figure. Frankly I wouldn't even consider a president that is still living a "historical" figure. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder.

Crystal said...

Oh my goodness! Seriously? The symbol for Obama was also used for his campaign. Smh

Crystal said...

Once again you help prove my point. The swastika is a symbol. Obama's O is a logo. You are fairly foolish.

Crystal said...

He isn't a historical figure. He is the CURRENT president. In the future he will be a historical figure. Just like every president before him, just not quite yet. The Nazi symbol isn't Hitler's symbol, it represents the group as a whole. 99.9% of people that see it think of Nazis rather than just Hitler.

lgstarr said...

Yes, he's historic, alright: http://tinyurl.com/historicfirsts

But he already made history as the first black president.

In his 1925 book "Mein Kampf" Hitler wrote: "I myself, meanwhile, after innumerable attempts, had laid down a final form; a flag with a red background, a white disk, and a black swastika in the middle. After long trials I also found a definite proportion between the size of the flag and the size of the white disk, as well as the shape and thickness of the swastika."

lgstarr said...

Wikipedia says: "The Obama logo was the flagship symbol of Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign."

Symbol.

lgstarr said...

Huffinton Post said: “Obama's 2008 campaign logo was the first-ever political campaign logo to use a bold mark that could stand on its own -- independently -- without having to include the candidate's name.”

It’s creator says:

"Icons are very powerful things and that [Obama] symbol got used independent of the candidate's name. We didn't even need to put 'Barack Obama' next to it."

"...it has that sort of larger than life, superhero dimension even beyond just the name."

"...it has the potential to affect us all on a deeply unconscious level…"

Unknown said...

Jesus did not chose the cross, his followers did. Trump using his initial isn't the same thing. Prince is a musician who used a symbol and that didn't really work for him did it? Chanel is a brand you dope! We are talking about political leaders.